Rewire Reason stereo channel selection broken in C4

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

In SX 3.1 one was able to select stereo channels in the Reason Rewire device panel by holding down the "Alt" key as per fgimian's instructions here - http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=51126 (13th post in that thread).

However, this does not work in C4. Which is a shame, and not good for opening 3.1 projects.

Moderators, is this a known bug?

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

Anyone else notice this omission?

fgimian · Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject:

If this is true I'm not upgrading, can anyone else please confirm ? I use this in all my Cubase project and it was buggy as hell in version 3, I thought it would be fixed for version 4 ?

Hiram, what happens when you open SX3 projects with stereo ReWire channels ?

Cheers
Fots
_________________
Cubase 4, Reason 4, Melodyne Uno, Wavelab Lite
AA, arialFX, Voxengo, Sonalksis, Kjaerhus Classic & Gold, EA InspectorXL, Zebra2, Virus TI
WinXP, Q6600 (P5K-E), 4GB RAM, 750 GB SATA2, Layla3G, Remote SL25, Roland RD600, ADAM A7 monitors

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

fgimian - I just tried it

I created an empty project in SX 3.1.1 with Reason Rewire stereo assignments for channels 3 & 4, linked togther using the Alt key.
I then opened the project in Cubase 4.0.1. The stereo setting was maintained correctly. Clicking on the channel buttons in the Rewire device panel toggled between off and on, maintaining the stereo linkage. I was still not able to create new stereo pairs in C4. I tried the Alt key, the Ctrl key, the Shift key and still nothing.

Perhaps Steinberg forgot to implement the "Alt" key binding in C4?

Steinberg, an official response would be welcome!

fgimian · Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject:

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

Bad news I'm afraid. I just ran some more tests...

I opened my example project in Cubase 4.0.1, the project previously saved with Reason stereo pair mappings in SX 3.1.1.
I then opened Reason and wired some sound to channels 3 & 4. Channel 4 is dead, only channel 3 works.
Even though it look like a stereo pair of channels 3&4 in Cubase 4, it is in fact a mono channel 3!

So, Reason Rewire stereo pairs are no longer supported in Cubase 4, and SX 3.1.1 projects with these set to stereo, do not import correctly.

Bad, very bad.

Georg Bruns · Administrative Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1159

Hm, so far I only can confirm the described troubles with additional stereo ReWire channels when trying to rewire Reason to C4.01. Sad

Alt+Click does not enable stereo pairs and I even experience crashes with C4.01 (on a PowerPC Mac) when I try to load SX 3 cprs with additional stereo Reason channels.

I'll look deeper into it next week and hope to be able to tell you more soon. Of course this will be addressed!

Cheers,

Georg
_________________
www.steinberg.net

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

fgimian · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:34 am Post subject:

Chroma One · Senior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 1961

Please & thanks. For me this is even worse than the loss of DX.

HowlingUlf · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:31 am Post subject:

=

=

_________________
Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

fgimian · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:06 am Post subject:

Cmoon Steiny, please fix this so I can upgrade. I don't care about DX, but I definitely care about this.

Can you please ensure that you completely test the implementation on this one ? Try enabling a stereo pair, disabling it and enabling it as mono channels again, version 3 is extremely buggy with this feature.

If you could provide any detail about when this will be fixed, that would be awesome, I truly want to upgrade as soon as it is released in Australia (which seems about 2 weeks away).

Thanks
Fots
_________________
Cubase 4, Reason 4, Melodyne Uno, Wavelab Lite
AA, arialFX, Voxengo, Sonalksis, Kjaerhus Classic & Gold, EA InspectorXL, Zebra2, Virus TI
WinXP, Q6600 (P5K-E), 4GB RAM, 750 GB SATA2, Layla3G, Remote SL25, Roland RD600, ADAM A7 monitors

Georg Bruns · Administrative Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1159

I've noted the follwing in our to-be-fixed database:

1. In Cubase SX 3.1.1 a stereo Rewire channel could be enabled by holding down [Alt] and clicking on an odd numbered Reason channel in the ReWire panel.
In Cubase 4 this feature is missing (actually it officially never existed since it was not documented in SX 3.1.1 ).
2. Even worse: On Macs Cubase 4 unexpectedly quits when opening SX 3.1.1 projects in which additional stereo channels to Reason are active.

Hope you understand that a date for the fix is not available yet.
_________________
www.steinberg.net

Chroma One · Senior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 1961

Thanks, Georg! Please keep us updated as you have info.

fgimian · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:36 am Post subject:

Here's a report I had sent one of the coders at Steinberg who I had contact with some time ago...

I have done some extensive testing on the ReWire feature and I have found a few problems. I have created a report for you so that you may try to repair the problems.

-------------------------- Bugs Found -------------------------------

--- PROBLEM NO 1

- Naming of ReWire channels doesn't work before channels are enabled
1. Rename channels in ReWire panel...
Channel 1 - Reason L
Channel 2 - Reason R
Channel 3 - Tester 1
Channel 4 - Tester 2
2. Enable Reason Channels 1, 3 & 4 without using the Alt key.
3. Unsuccessful, channel names reset to original names when enabled.

--- PROBLEM NO 2

- When switching the same channels between mono mode and stereo mode, 3 problems occur…
1. Incorrect naming of channels in the project / rewire panel
2. Inconsistent naming of channels in project / rewire panel
3. Sound only works in the original mode you chose. i.e. if you started with a stereo channel, sound will only work if the channel is stereo, if you choose 2 mono channels instead, there will be no sound.

--- PROBLEM NO 3

- If you hold Alt and make a channel stereo on the left channel (i.e. Channels 3, 5, 7 .etc) it works perfect. The channels can be disabled with no problem afterwards too.

BUT

1. If you hold Alt and make a channel stereo on the Right Channel (i.e. Channels 4, 6, 8 .etc). It creates a mono channel which is CORRECT.
2. Then you hold down Alt and click the corresponding Left Channel (3, 5, 7 .etc)

A stereo channel is added but the mono channel from Step 1 becomes a ghost channel which can not be removed. You soon after receive a serious problem has occurred with the following details.

===================================================================
CubaseSL3.exe Version Version 3.1.1 Build 944 - 24.11.2005 21:58
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp is 434ec533 (Fri Oct 14 06:36:03 2005)
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase SL 3\CubaseSL3.exe
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Exception code: C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION
Fault address: 00000000 00:00000228 C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase SL 3\CubaseSL3.exe

Registers:
EAX=00000001 ECX=0a3aecb0 EDX=0a3d32c8 EBX=00000001 ESI=0a3aecb0 EDI= 00000000
EBP=0012f6a8 EIP=00000000 ESP=0012f678 CS= 0000001b SS= 00000023 Flags=00210246
DS= 00000023 ES= 00000023 FS= 0000003b GS= 00000000

Float Save:
Control Word= ffff027f Status Word= ffff4020 Tag Word=ffffffff
Error Offset= 03381436 Error Selector=006a001b
Data Offset= 0338d110 Data Selector= ffff0023
Cr0NpxState= 00000000

--- PROBLEM NO 4

- If you have 2 mono rewire channels in the ReWire panel and they are selected as a stereo pair, there are some problems with the channel names. When 2 mono channels are a stereo pair, the name for both channels should be the same in the ReWire panel. For example ...

1. Channels 1 & 2 (Mix L & Mix R) are a stereo pair
2. I enable Channels 1 & 2, in the project I see a new channel created "Mix L + Mix R"
3. In the ReWire panel they are both named "Mix L + Mix R"

Everything upto here is perfect

4. I rename Channel 1 to "TEST". Channel 2 should automatically also be named "TEST" but it isn't. Instead I am left with this...

Project Stereo Rewire Track Name - TEST
Channel 1 Name - TEST
Channel 2 Name - Mix L + Mix R

Immediately we have inconsistency with the naming.

Please please check all these things with the implementation in v4 and if you could PLEASE fix it in the next v3 update, that would be appreciated so that it is actually useable beyond basic functionality.

Another problem I notice with Reason ReWired into Cubase is that when previewing drum samples (quick one shots) using the "Open" (Preview tick box checked) dialog box and moving over a particular drum sound, I get stutters which makes previewing the drum sound useless. Basically, I get a huge click and stuttering for the first second of the sound that is being previewed. This does not happen in other hosts.

You guys should really look at Ableton's implementation of ReWire and take some inspiration from them. They nailed it !! better than any other host without a doubt ... but obviously Ableton is not even 1/10th the DAW Cubase is.

Fots
_________________
Cubase 4, Reason 4, Melodyne Uno, Wavelab Lite
AA, arialFX, Voxengo, Sonalksis, Kjaerhus Classic & Gold, EA InspectorXL, Zebra2, Virus TI
WinXP, Q6600 (P5K-E), 4GB RAM, 750 GB SATA2, Layla3G, Remote SL25, Roland RD600, ADAM A7 monitors

Georg Bruns · Administrative Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1159

fgimian · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject:

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

fgimian - Are you saying you can use Alt to create stereo channels? Becuase I can't do it!

Georg Bruns · Administrative Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1159

fgimian's tests refer to Cubase SL 3.1.1.944.
_________________
www.steinberg.net

Hiram J. Hackenbacker · Guest

Chris, could you add this to the buglist please?

Thanks,

Hiram

Georg Bruns · Administrative Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1159

As I've already posted on October 5th this bug is noted.
_________________
www.steinberg.net

humdrum · Member Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 405 Location: Australia

@ fgimian:

i can confirm this rewire mono/stereo flakiness in SX3 on mac since way back. basically once you choose mono or stereo, you can't change your mind. disabling a stereo pair and creating a mono channel instead shows a mono channel with stereo panners! disabling a mono channel and creating a stereo pair results in a stereo channel with a mono panner! and of course none of it works properly...

@ georg:

this has been flakey ever since i can remember. are there any plans to fix it in SX3? thanks.
_________________
Mac Pro 2x2.8 quad-core, 10GB RAM, 4xSATA HD, Radeon 2600XT • 2x23" Cinema Displays • OS X.5.8 • Cubase 4.5.2 & 5.5.2 • Reason 4.01 • RME Fireface 400 • MOTU Midi Express 128 • Korg nanoKONTROL • Tranzport

el dorado · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: 4.02 no fix

Unfortunately, version 4.02 doesn't include a fix for this issue... at least on Macs Crying or Very sad

_________________
Lorenzo Tempesti - Italy
Steinberg Educational teacher www.suonimusicaidee.it
iMac Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz, MacOSX 10.4.9, MOTU 828, LiquidMix, Cubase 4.02, Reason 3.05, HALion 3.2.2, Kontakt 2.2.1

stonefree · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:31 am Post subject:

or PCs. Stereo Rewire for Reason has been requested so many times. It's nice to know that they obviously made some effort to fix things and its a good thing they didn't document it because now it's broken in C4.
_________________
Ed Mazur
House on the Hill Music
http://www.houseonthehillmusic.com
http://www.myspace.com/edmazur

humdrum · Member Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 405 Location: Australia

pathetic
_________________
Mac Pro 2x2.8 quad-core, 10GB RAM, 4xSATA HD, Radeon 2600XT • 2x23" Cinema Displays • OS X.5.8 • Cubase 4.5.2 & 5.5.2 • Reason 4.01 • RME Fireface 400 • MOTU Midi Express 128 • Korg nanoKONTROL • Tranzport

Chroma One · Senior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 1961

A show-stopper for me. Still sticking with SX3 and evaluating other platforms.

fgimian · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject:

Thank you all for confirming this isn't fixed in 4.02. I won't upgrade until it is fixed. I've evaluated all other platforms, and unfortunately they all suck, except for Logic which requires a Mac which would cost me more than 3 copies of Cubase Very Happy

Cheers
Fots
_________________
Cubase 4, Reason 4, Melodyne Uno, Wavelab Lite
AA, arialFX, Voxengo, Sonalksis, Kjaerhus Classic & Gold, EA InspectorXL, Zebra2, Virus TI
WinXP, Q6600 (P5K-E), 4GB RAM, 750 GB SATA2, Layla3G, Remote SL25, Roland RD600, ADAM A7 monitors

PitchBlank · Junior Member Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 34

This needs to be addressed - and moreover, documented. I bet most Reason users don't know of this feature in SX3. I found it by accident once, and when it no longer worked in C4 I was beginning to think I had been imagining things...

fgimian · Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:22 am Post subject:

bump, has this been addressed yet ? or will we have to wait until 4.1 for it ? (no sarcasm intended). This is honesty, the main thing stopping me from upgrading right now, I use it in every single project, please please address this.

Cheers
Fots
_________________
Cubase 4, Reason 4, Melodyne Uno, Wavelab Lite
AA, arialFX, Voxengo, Sonalksis, Kjaerhus Classic & Gold, EA InspectorXL, Zebra2, Virus TI
WinXP, Q6600 (P5K-E), 4GB RAM, 750 GB SATA2, Layla3G, Remote SL25, Roland RD600, ADAM A7 monitors